Do you think it's cheating to paint the player skin pink?

[outwrangle]

Anyone can download hax or aimbots. Therefore, it isn't cheating.

Nice logic bro.

[SIMOX]

... However skill is unfair, cos not everyone has it...

Playing with hax is fair and playing without it (using skill) - is not. Your logic is so broken man.

[Gorman]

... However skill is unfair, cos not everyone has it...

Playing with hax is fair and playing without it (using skill) - is not. Your logic is so broken man.

Please read the post before mine...

[SIMOX]

Please read the post before mine...

I read that and it's fine. There aren't any "having skills are unfair" nonsense. The difference is that I found in your post:

... it if they wish to, just like hacks or aimbots...

And why do you even mess with hax's and aimbots in a free game? What's the point?

[Gorman]

Please read the post before mine...

I read that and it's fine. There aren't any "having skills are unfair" nonsense. The difference is that I found in your post:

... it if they wish to, just like hacks or aimbots...

Since you clearly missed it... The post before mine was this;

it is fair, as in every one can do so if thay wish to,unlike hacks or aim bots.

Since it is trivially easy to use hacks (literally just download an injector and a dll and press OK, there is no way to screw it up) I extended his argument to include hacks (clearly he doesn't realise how easy they are). I then added "skill" at the end since obviously not everyone has the same skill level, nor are they able to.

Well as for your next statement;

And why do you even mess with hax's and aimbots in a free game? What's the point?

First off aimbots are a type of hack (in this game, I am yet to see a script level aimbot), so no need to distinguish between them (at this time), along with the rest of your statement it shows a supreme lack of understanding.

So on to the money-shot of your statement, so to speak, the biting question "why hack in a free game". Obviously I cannot speak for everyone, but I know a lot of people will agree with me. Hacking is fun. Making some cool hack that no one else has, or catching up to someone else's abilities, or just to have fun with an interesting script, it is very fun and exciting. As for skiddies who just download and run, just for fun too, impressing their friends or just to see people's reactions.

It could well be more entertaining than playing!

[CalenLoki]

Fact that cheat isn't prevented by game engine doesn't make it legit tactic. Any client modification that gives you some advantage can be considered "cheat" - only thing to discuss is what level of cheating is acceptable?
- light cheats, like custom scopes that doesn't obscure half of your screen are widely accepted, because they gives only minor advantages
- medium cheats, like painting enemies pink, adding long sticks to guns or large red tracers are basically wall-hacks, but there is no chance to confirm usage
- heavy cheats, like aimbots are ban worth.

cheat=/=hack

Way to track those using cheat models could be sending models currently used by every player to admins (or maybe even to all players, via menu option "show player models") - this way you can judge if someone cheat, without making modding obsolete.

[Gorman]

Um, CalenLoki that is trivial to beat isn't it? For instance I could replace the models while the game is running or just have it send a false reply.

Besides that Aimbots are not really detectable... If you point out that mods are not detectable at least say so for hacks too!

[CalenLoki]

Is it possible to change models after loading the game? And how do you want to send false models if game grabs them at the same time with the ones used in game? It all depends on how it's codded, and how easily is to change that code - and I don't have enough knowledge to discuss that. It was just proposed idea, alternative to server-side models.

Ok, maybe if someone use them really wise they can't be detected, but really often it's clear who use them. But you have absolutely no chance to tell someone's using cheaty models

[BrosephRadson]

You would intercept the packets containing the model data and replace them with packets which mimic the vanilla models.

[CalenLoki]

Any better idea? :P Maybe sending screenshot from chosen player's computer at admin request? That would require not only intercepting package but also re-rendering whole screenshot.
obvious drawback is used processing powers (to make that screenshot) and bandwich (to send it).

[Gorman]

Is it possible to change models after loading the game? And how do you want to send false models if game grabs them at the same time with the ones used in game? It all depends on how it's codded, and how easily is to change that code - and I don't have enough knowledge to discuss that. It was just proposed idea, alternative to server-side models.

Ok, maybe if someone use them really wise they can't be detected, but really often it's clear who use them. But you have absolutely no chance to tell someone's using cheaty models

You can swap the models ingame on the fly.

If the server requests to see what models you are using it will send the player/gun models that the game would usually load (ie the ones that are not swapped in).

As for sending a screenshot, it *could* work, except that I could simply detect the screenshot request and swap my models back for that.

Cheating is impossible to beat really.

[CalenLoki]

"Cheating is impossible to beat really."

I know. Just like griefing. But at last we can try to make it harder (so hackers are more proud after they find their solution)

[Gorman]

The harder you make it for hackers the more you inconvenience legitimate players. There are already a lot of things in place that cause legitimate players a lot of strife (black blocks, rubber banding, aimbot.py among others). Having models or screenshots sent to the admin is nothing for a hacker to overcome, but for a legit player they will just have to live with it.

[ThisFrickinSite]

a long time ago, i saw a mod that had an arrrow above people about 10 blocks in the air and pointed where they looked.

[Sniper101]

Well, think of it another way:

Would it be cheating if you skinned the player so that he has a huge arrow above his head?