GOONHAVEN SERVERS SHUT DOWN.

[Triplefox]

So, I'm pretty biased having been on staff from pretty early(mostly because of technical contributions, not community), but I also really enjoyed the GH servers. And I'm a little distant from this particular argument, so I'll weigh in.

The AoS community has organized in a more fragmented direction than traditional FPS games because of some accidents related to its origins as a small freeware game; although Ben is pursuing the game within his own vision and holds the most immediate power, the center of gravity lies somewhere between Ben, the server owners, staff, pyspades contributors, and players. When we disagree, we get into fights - not with punches or insults - but via our various platforms of power, and eventually reach some consensus or splintering. This is why server experiences tend to vary a lot; although we each want to make the best experience, we don't share vision so we're letting a lot of different philosophies compete for player attention within what's ostensibly the same "game."

If you're an admin with your own community like GH and just want to host the game in a certain way, you may not be interested in getting into street brawls, but this has been our status quo for some time - and it's really at the heart of the argument, regardless of the specific details, because it filters into our thinking about how to apply technology, how to treat users, what parts of gameplay are important, and so on.

AoS started from such an anarchic state that policy consensus even on individual admin actions can be slow, causing events like "Stack bans arti, Ben unbans him". The inconsistency looks bad, but it's a side effect of going slowly. Even though we get frustrated or mistaken, the aim has been to make community moderation a self-correcting system with justified outcomes. Since we didn't start from a position of experience or even good infrastructure, we have to run through the learning curve, make mistakes, debate, and then respond with gradual adjustments, compromises and improvements, as tGM just did by introducing the feedback form.

If we were as autocratic as claimed, we would have found a reason to get rid of, e.g., Reuben a long time ago and he would not exist as a voice in this discussion or in official community venues. We would have killed this thread and any similar one immediately. A large chunk of the #AoS population would be gone as well. It'd be easy to get a bunch of toadying yes-men in here. The fact that we haven't, and that in fact, we allow a chorus of protest to come through unfiltered, should tell you that it's not that simple. We treat people differently from the system, even when the people are obviously trying to disrupt the system.

But this process also means that there is no easy route to get what you want, unless you consider politics easy.

[lehma18]

Yes, yes it does. He can say whatever he wants about the community, and as for the servers, they're his. He can do whatever he wants to.

Agreed, he can do whatever he wants. But it still isn't fair to the players.

The phrase "when you return" seem a bit presumptuous. As for the comparisons, you're implying that every server has the exact same playing experience. Goon Haven's closing has had an effect, no matter how minor or major it may be.

Goonhaven closing did have an impact, but as i said, new and possibly better servers will be hosted eventually. We didn't suffer any losses that can't be replaced.

As for Ben & his companions being greedy jews for daring to try and get some kind pay of all the long hours they have worked on this game: Ben stated that the game will become pay to play long before the first goonhaven server. In fact, it was obvious from the start. It is only fair they finally get some money. Filling the site with ads would be better, since players will become the developers bosses.

[ReubenMcHawk]

If we were as autocratic as claimed, we would have found a reason to get rid of, e.g., Reuben a long time ago and he would not exist as a voice in this discussion or in official community venues.

Man can't keep me down. :P

But yeah, I'd definitely say I'm glad that community feedback form exists, and such. The staff has definitely shown a bit of improvement in getting stuff done since back in the day, and I'm glad.

[FNSaver]

What Thal did was also completely unnecessary. His reasoning is "since and entire HANDFUL of people are being dicks to me, I'm gonna lash out at the community." You ruined a perfectly good community for no reason what so ever. I understand that you don't want to help pay for something that a few dicks are running, but shutting down the server isn't going to create a message to ben that "YOU SHOULD GET NEW ADMINS."
[...]
But I do have to give props to Thal for having to balls to give a little rebel-yell.

EDIT:
I've given some thought to this, and apart from QFT'in from my fellow Yoshi, I think this argument will make a perfect case about Ben's decisions in the last couple of versions, or lack thereof. A gaming community is a very coincidental and a very fragile thing, but if you nurture it enough they will stick with you like Russians on a bottle of vodka. Ben has this bottle of vodka right now and we're the Russians, but as far as I've seen with the most recent decisions made by Ben and Mat regarding the game's development (adding gimmicks instead of fixing the base game and breaking the balance) they decided to have all the Vodka for themselves. They don't listen to the community. You may have some really good vodka, Ben, but remember: drinking alone isn't time well spent. And fucking with the community that keeps your game alive certainly isn't a good move if you want long term commercial success. Because if it keeps going like this you won't have anyone left to sell your game to.

[Thelionmaster]

Wow. Stack and _Ace are freaking -snip-. Thanks to them all of goonhaven is shut down. If anyone sees them on a server votekick them and dont be nice.

User warned, global rules 2d and 2e:
2e: Say something constructive/helpful or say nothing at all.
2d: Discussion is encouraged, don't be afraid to present ideas. Healthy and constructive debate is also encouraged, though do not take debate further than it needs to go - don't ever start to attack the individual rather than the idea.
~Doc

[Benton]

I really love how people take a freaking GAME so seriously. IMO, the community should be here for mods and clans ONLY.

Ben has not ruined the game. Stack and _Ace have not ruined the game. You guys have.

And by the way, this game is not even ruined. It is really really fun, the weapons are balanced perfectly, the only bad part of this game is the people that complain about it.


So please, PLEASE. Shut the f**k up.

Watch your language. ~Doc

[swim]

the only bad part of this game is the people that complain about it.
So please, PLEASE. Shut the f**k up.

Yeah, you aren't complaining at all.

User warned for this post, rule 2e and 2k. ~Doc

[TheGrandmaster]

Back on topic, if you have problems about forum/staff/dev that you want to submit to us (the staff), have a look at this thread then use the form to send us your concerns:

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=10316#p131594

Be specific and we can work to improve in those areas.

[Pulchritude]

Back on topic, if you have problems about forum/staff/dev that you want to submit to us (the staff), have a look at this thread then use the form to send us your concerns:

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=10316#p131594

Be specific and we can work to improve in those areas.

Kind sir, your post is also off topic! I don't see how you can say 'back on topic" and then go off topic again.

Anyways, I'll miss GH1. Minit Assault just isn't the same. The feeling is like it's a.... piece of rhinestone trying to take it's place as a diamond. So sad, so sad.

/edit

I'm glad that you're spreading the link around. This definitively shows that AoS staff is improving.

[Toumal]

"People who use their position of power for personal ends..."

Really, GH? After having watched three aimbotters with a 200/0 k/d ratio and hitting way past the fog having their votekicks cancelled by GH admins (To quote from the chats back then: "LOL, invalid votekicks") I feel little sympathy.
AoS is big enough to survive without goonhaven.


AoS is a great game, and there's a lot of great people involved. THANK YOU for your work and for giving us this game.
I'm running a 32 player server and if time and resources permit I'll look into adding a second one.

[ChaosTLW]

"People who use their position of power for personal ends..."

Really, GH? After having watched three aimbotters with a 200/0 k/d ratio and hitting way past the fog having their votekicks cancelled by GH admins (To quote from the chats back then: "LOL, invalid votekicks") I feel little sympathy.
AoS is big enough to survive without goonhaven.


AoS is a great game, and there's a lot of great people involved. THANK YOU for your work and for giving us this game.
I'm running a 32 player server and if time and resources permit I'll look into adding a second one.

From what I understood, they cancel the votekick so they can confirm if that guy is really a hacker.

[Lolies]

So we're essentially dealing with a bunch of 6 year old children who know how to run servers? They need to get over whatever the heck it is that they are in disagreement about. I really do think the maturity level in Ace of Spades has dropped from 9/10 to 1/10 in the past 3 months.

[ReubenMcHawk]

So we're essentially dealing with a bunch of 6 year old children who know how to run servers? They need to get over whatever the heck it is that they are in disagreement about. I really do think the maturity level in Ace of Spades has dropped from 9/10 to 1/10 in the past 3 months.

Thalagyrt isn't 6. Try again.

Really, GH? After having watched three aimbotters with a 200/0 k/d ratio and hitting way past the fog having their votekicks cancelled by GH admins (To quote from the chats back then: "LOL, invalid votekicks") I feel little sympathy.

If you didn't put a reason for your votekick, it'd get cancelled. Either that, or an admin in-game is gonna investigate it to see if it's really an aimbotter.

[Toumal]

If you didn't put a reason for your votekick, it'd get cancelled. Either that, or an admin in-game is gonna investigate it to see if it's really an aimbotter.

If you didn't put a reason for your votekick, it'd get cancelled. Either that, or an admin in-game is gonna investigate it to see if it's really an aimbotter.

Look, I know it's the internet, people overreact or see hackers where there are none... But these cases were clear. You don't get 200 headshots in a row with not a single shot missed. I watch suspected aimbotters on my servers all the time and there are some awesome players out there who are simply unreal - but even they miss once in a while.
The admins knew these people, and between all the "lolhax" banter exchanged, it was clear that there was no investigation going on - They simply canceled the votekicks and let the aimbotter have his fun. And yes there was a votekick reason - not that it matters because I could of course be making these things up. I have no agenda against GH. These were my experiences, nothing more, nothing less. Two friends of mine had similar experiences, so after a few of these incidences we decided to do the sensible thing: steer clear of the goonhaven servers.

There's plenty of excellent servers out there. Good luck to GH with whatever they plan to do in the future, but their departure will hardly be the end of AoS.


P.S.: Second server is up :)

[Lolies]

"Thalagyrt isn't 6. Try again."

Do you lack common sense? I'm comparing his mannerisms to those of a 6 year old.